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 Post subject: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 8:16 am 
Motor Mouth
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So, I have just ordered my copy of Caverna and it is shipping from the UK to Singapore.

Tell me I have done the right (or wrong) thing and why.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 9:38 am 
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Caverna is far less tight and mean than Agricola. With less players there are plenty of resources to go round. With more players the game features imitation spots where you can copy a space already claimed by another player.

The 'quests' (or shopping trips) that you send your dwarves on provide extra actions and resources - more choices and more stuff.

Rubies are a new WILD resource that can be changed for pretty much anything else whenever you need it.

Its just a much nicer, friendlier and less cutthroat game - with a familiar farming / caving theme.

For a full overview may I recommend my review:

http://littlemetaldog.com/2013/12/12/do ... rs-review/

I think Julia will like it. Probably more than you.


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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 10:53 am 
Motor Mouth
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Out of curiosity, did you watch the dice tower review before or after you wrote yours?

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:32 pm 
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I wrote mine before the DT review came out. There are certainly similarities... Vasel stole my ideas!


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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:08 pm 
Motor Mouth

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Caverna removes the imperative of building a food engine as it's easier to "make do" from various sources if things become a bit hairy.

That said, there are ways of building efficient methods of gathering food.

Harvest (and feeding) time is less predictable as there are three non-standard harvest periods that are randomised along with the action spaces in each round.

I think that overall you've done the right thing, but that Agricola will stay on your shelf for those times when you want to pressure that comes from trying to get that food engine in place, as well as the variety that comes from the cards (completely missing from Caverna, though it doesn't need it, I think).

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:04 am 
Motor Mouth
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Still waiting for my copy to arrive but just read that point for each category are UNCAPPED (zomg).

What is an average and good score for this? (and a number of players for that score please)

Just so that I can get up to speed before I arrive and beat you all at it.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 12:06 pm 
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Scores vary from 50 - 110 points typically.

This also helps with the feeling that you can build what you like. Not having a cow, for instance, is -2 points. Therefore having one is a 3pt swing. Crippling in Agricola, but not so much in Caverna.


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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:10 pm 
Motor Mouth

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The solo game pegs 100 as a "magic" number to aim for.

In multiplayer 80+ is a good score, 100+ is a very good score. I don't think that number of players makes a huge difference to the points available as there are many routes to score.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 21, 2014 1:11 pm 
Motor Mouth

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Oh, and you can score infinite points, but I'm not telling you how.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:08 pm 
Motor Mouth
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So I have finished my first solo game and one thing concerns me about Caverna.

Is it even a game? Or is it just a puzzle? The total lack of random element means that there must be a "perfect" combination of moves.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:10 pm 
Motor Mouth
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Yes the harvests are slightly random but as you don't know whether you will have to pay food or not you have to play like you do have to pay.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2014 3:56 pm 
Motor Mouth

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I think the solo game, as written, has a best solution and if I was going to play solo more often I'd probably ignore the suggested setup and deal the cards randomly as in a normal game. not sure what htey were thinking with that to be honest.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:28 am 
Vocal Minority

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:19 pm
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Harroguk wrote:
So I have finished my first solo game and one thing concerns me about Caverna.

Is it even a game? Or is it just a puzzle? The total lack of random element means that there must be a "perfect" combination of moves.

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I know how much you hate them but it could do with a DICE roll to see if the quests are successful rather than it just being a "shopping trip" each time! Other than that its a good multiplayer game.
If your moaning about playing it solo then you should
A: get out more!
B: join a games club!
C: not move to singapore!

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Sat Mar 01, 2014 11:34 am 
Motor Mouth
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Personally I think it would be improved by (more and then) random draw of the room tiles that are in play.

I might play a two player game with the introductory boards filled by random selection of tiles (staying within category).

This would at least stop the recipe to win element.

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 Post subject: Re: Caverna Vs Agricola
PostPosted: Sun Mar 02, 2014 5:17 pm 
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Harroguk wrote:
Personally I think it would be improved by (more and then) random draw of the room tiles that are in play.

I might play a two player game with the introductory boards filled by random selection of tiles (staying within category).

This would at least stop the recipe to win element.

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Just think the quest side needs more risk ie dice rolls 1-4= good normal loot. 5= poor pickings ie only 1 item. 6= oh dear a dragon ate your dwarf.
As for the farming side there is always going to be optimal choices with less players.

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