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 Post subject: Re: sorry jack
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 2:49 am 
bigmaddrongo wrote:

So what? In all probability, had they thought about it at the time they would certainly have bought more rations and ammo while in town. Do you require your players to roleplay every minute detail of day-to-day life? Then why make them roleplay routine shopping?



Sorry, making sure your character doesnt starve to death or run out of valuable ammunition isnt exactly 'day to day life'
If a character broke his sword, would you assume he went and bought a new one without actually having to declare it?


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 Post subject: Re: sorry jack
PostPosted: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:26 am 
Motor Mouth

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:44 am
Posts: 3871
Location: Kenilworth
Real Name: Beardy Pete
chamber101 wrote:
bigmaddrongo wrote:

So what? In all probability, had they thought about it at the time they would certainly have bought more rations and ammo while in town. Do you require your players to roleplay every minute detail of day-to-day life? Then why make them roleplay routine shopping?



Sorry, making sure your character doesnt starve to death or run out of valuable ammunition isnt exactly 'day to day life'
If a character broke his sword, would you assume he went and bought a new one without actually having to declare it?


In the context of D&D I believe that the purchasing of rations and ammunition is pretty much routine shopping. Buying a new weapon is different and the ability to buy a new one depends on where you are and what is available.

As I have said previously, if the players are in an area where rations and ammo aren't available or there is some difficulty finding or buying them then tell the players and then have them try to get hold of them, but if the players are in a reasonable size town or village then you would expect rations to be readily available.

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 Post subject: sorry i agree with daz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:15 am 
In the context of D&D I believe that the purchasing of rations and ammunition is pretty much routine shopping. Buying a new weapon is different and the ability to buy a new one depends on where you are and what is available.

As I have said previously, if the players are in an area where rations and ammo aren't available or there is some difficulty finding or buying them then tell the players and then have them try to get hold of them, but if the players are in a reasonable size town or village then you would expect rations to be readily available.[/quote]

Come on were do you draw the line food and amunition is routine shopping.My god talk about the possibility of player abuse. These small details are what make interraction with the npcs critical and in most casses fun. A game world comes to life through interaction and i strongly believe that mistakes grow the players. So they dont bring water out into the desert my word its happened in one of my groups. Not a single player remembered even though they planned the expedition. What did it do it forced them to turn round and re - supply. I had a lot of fun with the locals about this did they ever do it again no it improved there individual management of there characters and they never took anything for granted again.

Again i must add that the dm sets the standards however my view is that you should set your bar high.
Dont let the players get away with nonsence and you will ultimately gain there respect.
Small details are what make the game what it is.


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 Post subject: Re: sorry i agree with daz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:16 am 
In the context of D&D I believe that the purchasing of rations and ammunition is pretty much routine shopping. Buying a new weapon is different and the ability to buy a new one depends on where you are and what is available.

As I have said previously, if the players are in an area where rations and ammo aren't available or there is some difficulty finding or buying them then tell the players and then have them try to get hold of them, but if the players are in a reasonable size town or village then you would expect rations to be readily available.[/quote]

Come on were do you draw the line food and amunition is routine shopping.My god talk about the possibility of player abuse. These small details are what make interraction with the npcs critical and in most casses fun. A game world comes to life through interaction and i strongly believe that mistakes grow the players. So they dont bring water out into the desert my word its happened in one of my groups. Not a single player remembered even though they planned the expedition. What did it do it forced them to turn round and re - supply. I had a lot of fun with the locals about this did they ever do it again no it improved there individual management of there characters and they never took anything for granted again.

Again i must add that the dm sets the standards however my view is that you should set your bar high.
Dont let the players get away with nonsence and you will ultimately gain there respect.
Small details are what make the game what it is.[/quote]


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 Post subject: Re: sorry i agree with daz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:16 am 
mondrongo wrote:
In the context of D&D I believe that the purchasing of rations and ammunition is pretty much routine shopping. Buying a new weapon is different and the ability to buy a new one depends on where you are and what is available.

As I have said previously, if the players are in an area where rations and ammo aren't available or there is some difficulty finding or buying them then tell the players and then have them try to get hold of them, but if the players are in a reasonable size town or village then you would expect rations to be readily available.


Come on were do you draw the line food and amunition is routine shopping.My god talk about the possibility of player abuse. These small details are what make interraction with the npcs critical and in most casses fun. A game world comes to life through interaction and i strongly believe that mistakes grow the players. So they dont bring water out into the desert my word its happened in one of my groups. Not a single player remembered even though they planned the expedition. What did it do it forced them to turn round and re - supply. I had a lot of fun with the locals about this did they ever do it again no it improved there individual management of there characters and they never took anything for granted again.

Again i must add that the dm sets the standards however my view is that you should set your bar high.
Dont let the players get away with nonsence and you will ultimately gain there respect.
Small details are what make the game what it is.[/quote][/quote]


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 10:46 am 
Motor Mouth

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:44 am
Posts: 3871
Location: Kenilworth
Real Name: Beardy Pete
I'm not sure how I'm supposed to have a discussion here since both chamber101 and SeanDm seem to be flip-flopping their opinions or twisting my words.

chamber101 made the point that players should be trusted to look up cost and encumbrance themselves and record details, SeanDm made the point that players should ensure that they record everything on their sheets. Both of which are true and I fully agree with.

All my point is that in most cases this is routine shopping. Buying a replacement weapon is not routine. Provisioning for a desert expedition is not routine. Buying rations in a war-torn town where food is scarce is not routine! If I'm running a session at the club and I have three hours available I'm not going to waste an hour or more while each of my six or so players spends ten minutes in the various shops negotiating for bread and fucking cheese.

It should be obvious to anybody that players shouldn't assume that all shopping is routine in all situations, and neither should anybody assume that because I'm happy to let my players record rations and ammo that they have bought themselves from time to time then I'm in some way giving them a licence to abuse this or that I'm a poor DM.

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 Post subject: Re: sorry i agree with daz
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:40 am 
Motor Mouth
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SeanDm wrote:
Small details are what make the game what it is.


The game is about having fun.

Each player going to the shop individually and roleplaying buying food is not neccesserily fun. This is why some DMs allow a little bit of freedom for buying routine items.

Taking your arguement to the EXTREME, do you ask your players to specify when they are breathing or do you assume they are doing it routinely unless they specify otherwise?

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 Post subject: My final words on the subject
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:30 pm 
Dear sirs,

I am a dm with over 25 years experience and a group in london that has been with me for the whole of that time.

I appreciate that this means i am not always right however that says alot about the enjoyment those people get out of the game when i dm.

People who throw comments should in my view back it with something.

Your points are down right rude. They are not constructive just plain destructive.

It is increadibly fun to role play out small encounters how many things have come from these to make the greater story even better or lead on to something completely amazing in there own right.

I have lost count.

As for me well i guess winning dm of the year four times at gen con in america or writting my own published material and entertaining players for many years count for nothing with people like you.

At this pont i would hand any other points over to the players who i have dmed for as they are the true test of the way i do things.

And as i said so many times ultimately its the dms deciesion on what he or she wants to do. However i give my advice based on my own mistakes and the way i have used and learnt from them.

Can you say the same?


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 Post subject: Re: My final words on the subject
PostPosted: Sun Jun 15, 2008 12:39 pm 
Motor Mouth

Joined: Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:44 am
Posts: 3871
Location: Kenilworth
Real Name: Beardy Pete
SeanDm wrote:
Your points are down right rude. They are not constructive just plain destructive.


I give up. I fail to see how this, in my view, constructive discussion with good arguments made in favour of both points of view has become rude and destructive.

I'm sorry I don't fully agree with you Sean, but that is no excuse to throw your toys out of the pram.

Since last words appear to have been said by all I am inclined to lock this thread before it degrades further.

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