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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Yes thats the injury roll!

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 03, 2014 5:30 pm 
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On the mission cards the one that talks about turning the power off mentions that night-fighting then erupts across the ship, what's the difference for night fighting and would we want that any time the power is disabled or only for that mission?

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:16 pm 
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TalonBay wrote:
On the mission cards the one that talks about turning the power off mentions that night-fighting then erupts across the ship, what's the difference for night fighting and would we want that any time the power is disabled or only for that mission?


sorry gary i missed this, yes night fighting should come into effect but as people were just learning i was trying to avoid over complicating things.

in future i'll enforce this,
night fighting basically is .
no shooting over 36".
units 24"-36" away get shrouded special rule.(+2 cover save)
units 12"-24" get the stealth special rule.(+1 cover save)

units with the night vision special rule ignore these bonuses!

so for example; if dave's nids want to creep up on you tommorrow, turning off the power can make a big difference giving him some cover even in the open.
:lots of love: you had to ask! :lots of love:

have updated the first post of this thread with a link to all the v2 army lists, however v3 may be used if you choose to!

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 1:19 pm 
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lots of love, glad I asked :)

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2014 2:47 pm 
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Oh noes.... shooting gets worse, I don't like the sound of that :twisted:

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:03 am 
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I didn't notice a difference with the power being off with shooting should we have made it harder to hit with ranged weapons?

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:27 am 
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Only shots over 12" away, the only thing that would have affected is the snipers and I'm not sure they hit a barn door!

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:44 am 
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I would like to see doors drop to Av9 so that anyone has some chance of opening it. Else a large part of picking a force (for the "smaller" guys) revolves around moving about. Having my 50 point leader reduced to role of doorman seems a bit.....

For my part, i'd say that my 23 man kill team of models all of which overspill the base sizes in various forms from big arms to forward pointing claws to massive wings, completely hinder movement, ruin the cinematics for me and made it almost impossible to maintain unit coherency. Had Aaron not killed my Zoanthrope, i would definatley drop the gargoyles for something bigger (in value smaller in size).

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 10:53 am 
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So I really enjoyed the game last night, I seemed to be incredibly jammy with a lot of my armour rolls which kept me in the game longer than I should have been. A few things we forgot or didn't play which I wanted to clarify before I play again and just some ideas I think may help.

Firstly we were just removing knocked down models if an attack was allocated but models still need to be wounded if only down, it's stunned models who just get removed (there is also rules for knocked down models in combat which I must have skipped when I read through)

I was playing shooting wrong with guns with multiple shots, both shots must target the same model (this includes units) unless the shooting player declares to use 'suppressing fire' which means he can shoot at another model within 3" but is a -1BS. We also forgot to take pinning tests if a friendly model is killed by a shooting attack within 3" (if wouldn't have effected sparky as they are fearless however)

Are we playing the break rule for teams as well? When a team is reduced to half models a leadership test must be passed or the team runs away?

I think that's most of what we forgot. Some suggested rule changes I think may help with the game.

Infiltrate: In the rule book it states models should be more than 12" from an enemy model which is increased to 18" if that model can be see by an enemy, models who infiltrate also cannot charge in their first turn.

My suggestion is to lower the ranges to 6" and 12" if they can be seen, mainly because we play on a much smaller board than you would normally (kill team is designed for a 4x4 table) I would still suggest keeping the no charge turn 1 rule.

Night Fighting: While on the subject of ranges it may also be better to scale down the night fighting rules to accommodate the board

0"-8" no bonus
8"-16" gain stealth
16"-24" gains shrouded
24"+ cannot be targets

Doors: I can understand sparky wanting to drop the armour of doors, but I think that they should stay armour 10 AND gain a hull point. I have 2 reasons, firstly dropping the armour to accommodate for models with lower strength to break through sort of defies the point of them in the first place, it's supposed to slow things down, I could understand more if you had nothing to get through them but all the armies have something to get through them, it's kind of like me saying wraith guard need to be toughness 5 because I can only wound them on a 6.

As for the extra hull point, I thing taking a 'door opener' model should grant a bonus over just glancing it to death, so if a door has 2 Hull points then you need to score 2 glances to break through (which in fluff works better in my opinion) however if a penetrating hit is rolled both hull points should be removed (so a power fist or Melta would make quick work of a door where as a space marines chainsword would take a few more blows)

So that's pretty much it, sorry for the long Spotted Owl message! The games great and just needs some tweaks to smooth out any rough edges so to speak :)

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 11:21 am 
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on the subject of doors, i wasnt looking at my team so much, i had plenty of options for door opening, a gargoyle opened one afterall. For me only hormagaunts couldnt open it. However upon looking through the imperial guard codex, you would have to either take the squads special weapon specifically for door opening purposes (removing tactical flexibility) i would like a flamer afterall.

Which leaves you with 2 other options (ignoreing the heavy weapon teams which would prove cumbersome and slow your team to a crawl). Various flavour of ogryn. or sentinels.

While my suggestion changes things., the doors would still provide a big roadblock, without breaking any particular team army choice.

Maybe a compromise could be weapon ST + The D6 roll of 6 totaling 9 count as 1/2 a hull point removal. meaning st3 guys / guns could get through them eventually whilst proving a substantial roadblock. badly worded maybe but you catch my drift.

As for the rest, it was great fun.

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:10 pm 
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lordgabriel wrote:
Are we playing the break rule for teams as well? When a team is reduced to half models a leadership test must be passed or the team runs away?

Is that the whole kill team breaking? Or just a squad within it? That would seem to favour hordes rather than small elite squads, I don't think we've been missing anything by not having this so far.

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:18 pm 
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Doors: I think doors are about right, everyone gets through them but they provide the odd stumbling block when they hold for a turn or two.

Night: Shortening the ranges makes sense for the interior of the ship, it'll get properly claustrophobic plus add a reason to cut the power.

Infiltrate: It's already very powerful, I'd not make it stronger by reducing the ranges (spoken as a player with half a dozen infiltrators).

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:21 pm 
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Synapsis is a killer :) leadership schmeadership.

Just seems madness to me that a normal human cant open a door :)

Doesnt matter to my teams of choice, just voicing an opinion. Paulus's the bossman :D

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:24 pm 
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Whilst i understand both your points the campaign element will help with this a +s on a squad of 5 guardsmen will increase their chances dramatically and with garys tv getting ridiculous your probably gonna get 2 skill ups per squad per game. The doors are there to slow things but not dramatically, no matter which section you spawn in, there is a route to the bridge requiring only one door to be opened, two sections need no doors opening at all, and every team has access to a specialists that should be able to blow the doors of their hinges with some reliability.
As for the infiltrate i disscused this previously with players and it was decided that it would be by shortest route not as the crow flies with shut doors negating this!(crew do not count as enemy for infiltration purposes!)
Night fighting im leaving as is for now, teams have enough scenery to hide behind, use it to your advantage!
For the suppressing fire issue, we have been either targetting characters or squads and as such all wounds are getting resolved against those targets exclusively! (I think)
As for the stunned/downed models yep i think we have been getting a little confused, i think the removing of models if the whole squad is down works well and enhances the gameplay.

In all it was a learning game for 3 players last night so we did ok, it is definately easier once people have a game under their belt!
Happy to listen to any further input with regards to tweaks!

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 Post subject: Re: rules development thread
PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 12:27 pm 
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For my part, i definatley need to go back and re read the rule book, i thought i was fairly comfortable until i cound hardly remember anything last night :D

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